Planetary Pinball Forum!
Medieval Madness Remake (MMR) => MMR Support [MMR Members Only] => Topic started by: Drewblood419 on January 28, 2016, 10:11:54 AM
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I just received my MMRLE yesterday and The text on the inserts is very thin and not readable when the light is lit. I would consider this a manufacturing defect because I have definitely seen both original medieval madness and MMR's where this is not an issue at all. Reading through some pinside forum pages it seems that I am not the only one with this issue and also it seems to only be an issue on later runs of MMR. I've submitted a ticket with CGC and am awaiting a reply. Anyone else on here have the same issue. Any ideas of what steps could be taken to resolve said issue?
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I ordered a High Speed playfield reproduction when they were announced, before production.
I was utterly disappointed by the quality of the inserts when I received mine.
When MMr was announced, I was scared and decided to wait, not to be deceived again.
I then saw one live at Pinfest last year and judged the playfield quality was excellent.
Bought one, received it, ghostly text on inserts...
Lesson learned.
In the future, I'll only buy stuff I can see and inspect upfront. Like a steak at the supermarket.
ps : The High Speed and MMr playfields are not produced by the same companies. It's just to illustrate my point.
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I just had a look at mine and they are as yours, let us know how you get on with the ticket but I wouldn't hold your breath.
It does not spoil things for me too much as you can make them out but it looks like you need to go over them with a black sharpie or something.
It seems worse on the orange inserts.
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Yes Mine is the same, Disappointing but i'm in australia what they gunna do just have to cop it
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Ticket filed 11 days ago. Awaiting reply. Also a more detailed thread on pinside with more images/examples.
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I have the same problem with mine and have created a ticket that I'm sure will be ignored like the other ticket I created over a month ago.
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Has anyone tried calling cgc to tell them there is a wide problem and see if they are actually looking into this or even gotten a reply? Having a live conversation with them would be better than an email/ticket. You can get more accomplished by talking with someone. They can choose to not respond/ignore a ticket or email. Or is the only way to talk to someone there is by creating a ticket and hoping they get it or reply?
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They are looking into it, I can tell you that many of the pictures are in completely different light, angle, ambient light, mm vs mmr, etc and so it's really hard to compare one vs the other to get a clear picture of any differences. But I did make sure Doug Duba at Chicago Gaming was aware of the topic, and he will look into to it. I've also alerted Stern production manager of it as to see if they can see it, apparently whatever is going on is not obvious and not sure under which light or conditions, etc.
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It's definitely off if you look at the battle the kingdom insert and the 6 blue inserts underneath it those are all perfectly fine but all the yellow orange and white inserts are translucent even with the LEDs off. I'll try to get some close ups of mine in the same light both with the the led on and off
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Thank you rick for your reply and also for bringing this to their attention! My MMRLE has not been made or shipped yet but from what most are saying I'm guessing its true. I hope this gets fixed because I don't want mine showing up like that.
Thanks again
Adrey
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They are looking into it, I can tell you that many of the pictures are in completely different light, angle, ambient light, mm vs mmr, etc and so it's really hard to compare one vs the other to get a clear picture of any differences. But I did make sure Doug Duba at Chicago Gaming was aware of the topic, and he will look into to it. I've also alerted Stern production manager of it as to see if they can see it, apparently whatever is going on is not obvious and not sure under which light or conditions, etc.
Hey Rick, thanks for the response. A great way to check for them would be to look at the "Jackpot" and center line of inserts leading up into the castle and compare them to the others (Catapult, Joust, Peasant, Castle...etc. The difference is obvious even without light underneath. They are faded/transparent when the others are opaque.
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Thanks Rick. Just so we're all on the same page, the problem only shows when lit. When the machine is off, the black text in the inserts looks fine. And the comparisons I have seen are between earlier runs of MMR (up to 400ish look fine) vs newer runs (600ish and up have faded black text). The worst of the fading is in the castle inserts, followed by the catapult, peasant, madness, damsel, joust inserts in no particular order. The jackpots, locks, fire, and the blue inserts leading up to the castle all appear to be much more legible.
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Here is a video I just made of my MMR so people can see the difference between good and bad inserts on MMR As you can see the castle crusher insert is correct but the surrounding inserts are transparent. I chose to pick these because it shows both what they should all look like versus what the problem inserts look like on the same machine in the same light backlit and not backlit. Keep in mind these are not the worst inserts on the machine and that should tell you a lot
Here is a short clip
http://youtu.be/O9M4rjnJYCQ
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same ink on all the inserts, the pattern of the inserts is different may have something to the way light is reflected and diffused, not sure if it's the light hitting the insert pattern underneath differently or if something else. CGC will have to see if they can see what people concerned about.
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It's not related to the insert type (frosted or whatnot). The blue inserts all have a white border. Black text screened over white. Two layers of ink, less light passing through. Simple.
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If anyone has a machine with issues near Cicero, IL, that would be ideal, right?
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I think what lowrent is saying sounds right. Looks like it's just more for light to pass through. Like other inserts didn't get a second pass (?) or something was amuke with the printer.
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Another thing... Screen printing is done with thick inks, almost like paste. The process requires the ink to be diluted, to achieve a really specific viscosity. A constant room temperature and humidity is important. Viscosity will also change during the process as the ink will evaporate a bit, over time.
I think that's why we see different opacity amongst pictures. Viscosity changes. Thin ink, shadowy text. Thick ink, opaque text.
I'm no expert, that's only my hypothesis.
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black is not always screened over white, especially on white inserts as this was not the original art (and generally not done as if there are any registration errors the white will show thru).
rick
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Well it is disappointing but I can't see what could be done, I guess we will have to live with it but a free colour DMD upgrade might just ease my disappointment ::)
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I think the big problem is that on earlier runs of MMR this problem did not exist but on later runs it does. So what changed to give the inconsistency between these batches. If it were on every MMR out there I can understand the argument of it just being that way but it is not. Inconsistency between 2 runs of the same part/product=manufacturing defect
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Post #61 on this page shows the issue on the new PF run and post #70 shows how much darker the lettering on the inserts are on the earlier run (#292) so it's clearly a difference in batches
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-owners-need-some-help/page/2
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Rick- what is CGCs response on this issue? Do they recognize it is one?
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Post #61 on this page shows the issue on the new PF run and post #70 shows how much darker the lettering on the inserts are on the earlier run (#292) so it's clearly a difference in batches
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-owners-need-some-help/page/2 (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-owners-need-some-help/page/2)
No, that is the problem, post #61 is a strange picture in that you cannot see any art around the playfield, so the exposure is off relative to other pictures, that is why this more difficult as cannot see an 'apples to apples' to see what might be going on.
I've passed the threads over to CGC and to Stern and they are very aware of it, and Stern factory replied to me over the weekend that they are looking at this to see if it's something they are now able to detect (assuming it's a difference), and putting in steps to identify any playfield (dark, under light) issues. I'm sure all Stern's games are testing in daylight/light, which probably is why it's not been seen by them.
rick
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Good to hear, I agree that it is hard to see the issue when the insert lights are not on however I can duplicate the issue by shining my cell phone flashlight at the insert. That being said post number 70 on that page is clearly lit with solid text when I get home this evening I can take a natural light picture of my insert lit and not lit as well as it lit by a flashlight to show different variables in the lighting and transparency. I will also do my best to reach out to customers with lower production numbers and see if I can get a few really clear pictures for comparison sake. On a positive note the machine is a blast and can't get enough of it I just want to thank you Rick for bringing this game to production and wish both you and CGC the best of luck with all remakes going forward :)
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When you take a picture, place something with pure white and pure black beside the insert. That way, we have a reference, something to compare.
Ideally, we should all use the same thing, something we all have in common. Maybe the back of a credit card ? The magnetic line is deep black (hide any sensitive info)
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Plenty of examples posted in this thread of both new playfields with the issue and early runs without it as well as videos of the issue
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/early-production-run-mmr-owners-help-needed
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Most telling example of the problem is pinside user sandersj post #93 on the topic below. He has 2 MMRs. Number 137 (early run) and number 670 (later run). He has looked at both and said the early one was noticeably darker than the later one.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/early-production-run-mmr-owners-help-needed/page/2
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Mine came in today #996 (not likely the 996th of the line just the number I paid for) and my inserts also look like crap when lit. Hopefully they figure something out for this (and that its NOT adding stickers or some crap)
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I have not received my Black Trim MMRLE yet.
Have advised JJP to tell CGC to not ship my machine until this problem with the insert ink is rectified.
I will not accept mediocre quality when your spending thousands of dollars.
It is an obvious problem judging from the comments from owners of machines from earlier runs.
I don't know what they can do for the people that had their machines already delivered.
It's a real mess!
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Here are some really good examples of the insert issue all the pics were taken from a frame by frame screen shot of a video I made of my MMR at the same time with the same camera in the same light please reference post 120 through 123 in this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/early-production-run-mmr-owners-help-needed/page/3#post-2949944
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Mine has the same issue. #4xx
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I think the big problem is that on earlier runs of MMR this problem did not exist but on later runs it does. So what changed to give the inconsistency between these batches. If it were on every MMR out there I can understand the argument of it just being that way but it is not. Inconsistency between 2 runs of the same part/product=manufacturing defect
i have mmr 560 and the orange inserts left and right are very transparent also clear shield insertsabove flippers are almost transparent when lit?
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Anyone hear from CGC regarding this?
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I think the big problem is that on earlier runs of MMR this problem did not exist but on later runs it does. So what changed to give the inconsistency between these batches. If it were on every MMR out there I can understand the argument of it just being that way but it is not. Inconsistency between 2 runs of the same part/product=manufacturing defect
i have mmr 560 and the orange inserts left and right are very transparent also clear shield insertsabove flippers are almost transparent when lit?
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I have #2_ _ and the text and lighting on mine is perfect and actually I like it better than my original MM that I've owned for 18yrs!
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That's exactly the issue, differences in batches so it's not an issue on all MMRs hence it is a batch defect.
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I got an email from Doug at CGC today asking for pictures of the playfield with the game off... I sent pictures back with both the lights on and off to show that they are illegible. I will update if I hear something.
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mine looks ok when not lit up, when lit up the lettering looks almost transparent,but its very hard to tell how bad it is unless another playfield is up against it. but by eye when lit im not happy.
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That's exactly the issue, differences in batches so it's not an issue on all MMRs hence it is a batch defect.
bigboy can you post pic of your inserts to compare?
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http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k488/grimwasere/20160205_173633.jpg
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k488/grimwasere/20160205_173727.jpg
couple of pics with the insert lights on
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I have MMR LE #669 and I do see what everyone is talking about. Many of my black on white inserts are very hard to read when lit.
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I just got my MMR LE Black game installed this week-end and I love it but the inset text issue is very much present. My room does not have much light and therefore no direct Sun exposure but it is pretty much impossible to read anything on the inserts when lit (especially at the bottom). They do look very cheap IMO.
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when not lit dont see much problem,and seems the earlier games were fine, my pin would have been perfect if it was not for that,have you heard what has gone wrong from cgc rick?
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Dang it, I just got my machine delivered, after waiting more than a year after paying, and now I find out it's likely defective! Do I unbox it?
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You should definitely open it, then open a ticket with CGC if the text is jacked up.
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The white inserts at the bottom are definitely the worst. I cannot read any of the text lit or not lit. It looks cheap. I assume they cannot be replaced easily and I don't want to replace the board myself.
I have the old generation game at some friend and the inserts look a lot better! I will try and post some shots.
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I opened a ticket on mine, it does seem odd how faded they appear when the lights are on. The white ones at the bottom are the worse and, just like others have said, I can't read them at all with the lights on, with the lights off they are hard to read. I don't mind if the solution is a corrected blank replacement playfield. I just did a play field replacement on a STTNG, by the looks of things MMR would be a much easier swap. Heck I'd even be willing to pay a little something for a correct play field.
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Is it necessary for everyone to put in a ticket for this or just wait to hear what CGC is going to do?
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It is necessary for anyone to put in a ticket if you have this complaint against your game. I talked with CGC today and they have about 20 tickets i.e. 20 affected games that they are aware of. When this first came up they inspected what was currently on the line and I think out of about 30 or so games on assembly they found either one or two that they felt had the issue.
So, yes it is imperative that anyone that feels they have the issue that they get some pictures of it (glass off, lights off, lights on) and submit a ticket with CGC.
http://www.chicago-gaming.com/support.php
rick
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Will do.
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I was going to wait to see what the outcome is. However, thanks to Rick's advice, I am going to open a ticket. My machine, MMR #697, has the issue too.
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fyi ... seems like a portion of this has to do with the fact that of very few inserts MM was designed to NOT have the blocking layer behind the black on many of the inserts. Probably because of the thin text, which if there is the slightest registration between white and black it would not look good ...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-unboxings/page/56#post-2969508
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I just set up game #635 and my inserts are not visible when the game is turned on. I compared my machine to friends (earlier production date) and the machines are dramatically different. It is impossible to even see my inserts with the LED's on. I opened a ticket and requested a Registration Card that was not sent with my game.
Overall the game is beautiful and plays great although the insert issue is significant especially when I have guests play the game that do not experience with MM. I have a lot of respect for Planetary and Chicago Gaming and believe they will remedy this issue.
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Here's a JPG showing my MMR inserts.
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I'm catching up on the insert issue.
I read CGC is going to do a "SW patch" for the insert issue? This doesn't sound like a great solution when people can compare older builds to this one and can see a physical difference. Wouldn't the SW patch make the machines with the proper inserts now look too dark?
I've also read that Stern has flagged this for rejection in QC but that was before the "SW patch" announcement.
My question is this; Is Stern still inspecting and rejecting the physical problem in QC or are they letting these sail through now that this will be "fixed in SW"?
I'm still waiting on mine. I'm most likely in the the last LE build as I ordered black from JJP. I was ok with being at the end of the build knowing that in MFG, most bugs get screened out after a few production runs. Now I'm a little disappointed I didn't order gold if only to get into the "better" build.
Hoping the answer to my question is "YES" we are still rejecting the bad inserts. Also hoping there are no more production issues.
BB
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Of course - both Stern and CGC are inspecting playfields vigorously more than they were.
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I was told yesterday that the fix will be to dim the LED's. I asked what the backup plan was in case that doesn't work....nothing. This is their only plan. I was told that making playfields is complicated and that there will always be variances like this. REALLY???? Apparently there were a couple people who did get new playfields. Hmmm...
You would think with the few affected playfields, they would just make it right with the customers. How much could it really cost them to fix the few properly. I have a feeling it will cost them more in the long run. This kind of service makes me not want to give them any more of my $$$.
These are REMAKES. If they aren't up to snuff and CS sucks, I'll buy myself an original from now on.
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Of course - both Stern and CGC are inspecting playfields vigorously more than they were.
Good to hear.
Thanks Rick,
BB
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I too have illegible text on my shield inserts #566. I have raised a ticket so I'm included when they come up with a workable fix for the issue. In the mean time I'm just going to continue enjoying the game
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You can print black ink without white backing and have it be opaque. Look at Mirco playfields and you'll see the ink opacity is far greater than what CC has been producing.
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I provided two sets of high definition pictures of my inserts to Chicago Gaming when the machine is unpowered and when the lights are on. The photo's show illegible inserts when lit and one with a brown stained area that further blurs the text. The ticket is pending. My machine is brand new (MMR0635) with less than 50 plays and the inserts look so bad that I'm not playing it as much as I would like to. The last response from Chicago Gaming indicates that they are reviewing my ticket but that is it difficult because it is subjective. To be honest and will full respect for Chicago Gaming for bringing a great game back to life, there is very little that's subjective about my photographs, the inserts are horrible. I have had more than a dozen local collectors look at my machine and the overall opinion is consistent with what I have shared. I hope that corrective action is proactively taken without having those of us that have received defective playfields having to defend what is so very obviously a quality defect.
Thank you Rick for your continued support and updates regarding this matter. Can't wait for your next title and I truly hope that Chicago Gaming maintains our respect and confidence by resolving this matter.
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They reviewed my pics and concluded that mine would have passed their inspection. It's quite obvious that their standards on a $8k machine are much lower than the clients.
We'll see how their handling of this effects people ordering game #2,3....
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gliebig: Can we please see your inserts?
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I'll have to dig up the pics when I get home. What I noticed on mine is that the ink is inconsistent across each word. Sometimes the left portion of the ink is thin and gets better on the right and vice versa. It doesn't look as bad in pics, but trying to read them at an angle while your playing, it is very noticeable.
I think they are asking for unlit pics because it's easier to say " it passes inspection" since the ink doesn't look bad until it's lit.
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Keith, can you share your pics here? I want to see how they compare to mine and others I've seen.
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Hi, I am sorry for the late reply. I have attached a PDF with multiple pictures of my inserts. Please note that this is the second set of pic's that were sent to Chicago Gaming. As I mentioned earlier, I have owned an original MM and the inserts in my game are not even close to my original 15+ year old game. I've also looked at other MMR's from earlier production dates and there's no comparison, my inserts are illegible. I have noticed similar to other comments in this blog that the letters often get worse (less clear) from one side to the other. I am a big fan of PP and Chicago Gaming and I am planning to purchase Rick's next game but to be honest, if CG doesn't respect my request given the quality of the picture's I've sent, I may not purchase game #2. I take quality very seriously and believe in good business ethics so let's see what happens.
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Mine are exactly the same MMr 565, I watched the video on the front end of the site and was amazed how clear they should be, I even tried greased proof paper under my insert to take away the LED intensity, I still cant read the white insert names between the slings, I struggle to read them with the game turned off.
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Have you filed a ticket? I think it is important for anyone with this issue to file a ticket to help accurately portray the percentage of dissatisfied and/or concerned customers.
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I received an email from CGC today. They said they have diffusers which lessen the effect of the bright LED's and are going to include them with all future new manufactured machines.
My issue is as follows:
I went to Logan Arcade in Chicago tonight, which has one of the original MMR's. Their inserts are nice and black, the LED's don't wash out the inserts at all. I do not believe the issue is purely a LED brightness issue, I think they do have an ink blackness issue and are trying to fix it with lighting changes. Not sure thats acceptable....Thoughts from my fellow MMR owners?
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I agree. If you look at other MMRs from 400ish and lower they don't have the problem. The problem creeps in on games manufactured from late 400ish to 750ish. We'll see if the 800's and on have the same problem. If not, then that pretty much tells me that CGC changed something in the process on the playfields to ensure a nice solid black on the insert lettering. That would be an admission of a defect in my eyes.
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CGC said they were going to flood the screens before printing so should help lay down more black. Only question is at what point do these playfields make it into production.
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Mine came in last week, and the colors are fine. #736
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It's obvious that they know a batch of these playfields have defects in the printing. I'm not sure I care if this diffuser solution works. The playfields that need them will always be branded as defects. Completely unacceptable to me as a buyer of an $8k product. Why do they refuse to do the right thing and just replace these playfields.
Why on earth would I purchase their next game if I don't know if mine will be inferior to the next one on the line and I know that the issue won't be handled properly?
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I did open a ticket and I have sent pictures, I will see what comes back.
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Well I just checked for a reply and have been told mine would pass the quality inspection and just needs the diffuser, if it works I will be ok with that, but if not I will feel let down, it is my first and probably only new in box and cost £6500 which is $9100 in your money, it just takes the shine off things. I have put super bright LED's in my TAF, TZ, CV and HS2 and have no problem with seeing the insert text. It may pass their quality expectation but with the fix in place I want it to pass mine.
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Sorry if you posted earlier but when was your game manufactured?
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Dec 09 2015
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my mmr and a original mm , these bulbs must be some kind of magic and at the moment im not convinced? as mine dont look good with no light turned on
http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k488/grimwasere/mmr/mmr%20side%20by%20side.png (http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k488/grimwasere/mmr/mmr%20side%20by%20side.png)
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Mine is exactly the same, and like you, I find it extremely difficult to read those inserts unlit. I don't know if it is the pattern texture of the insert or the bad print of the text, but I put greased proof paper between the insert and the bulb and still couldn't read it, the original is so much clearer.
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well i would be suprised if any of the other uk machines were good as all from the same batch, and yes m8 i agree there is a problem with the inserts aswell as the text in my opinion, but earlier machines seem to be fine with those inserts so its a bit of a puzzle ??
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Here is the response that I received today from CG regarding my illegible playfield inserts. I sent a copy to Rick to make sure he sees it in that he is advocating for the right outcome. If I am reading this correctly, I have the impression that CG is going to sell the inserts to the owners of the defective games. In response to a point made earlier in this blog, it is an admission of a quality defect by CG to admit that inserts are required to fix an issue and second, inserting diffusers is not the ideal solution. Does this require that we disassemble our games and remove the LED boards. That's a pain in the neck and should not have to be done on a brand new game. The solution begs many questions such as, do the diffusers stay in place or will they slide out with repeated game play...will they discolor over time due to uv degradation...the list goes on and on. We should be thankful that a solution has been found especially if the installation is not overly burdensome. However, it is not ideal should any of us decide to sell our games in the future. It's never the plan but I know I would want to purchase perfect machine. In fact, I do want a perfect machine without having to install inserts.
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CG email response received on 2/26.
I wanted to follow up with you in regards to a concern you have on the legibility of the lettering on the inserts of the Medieval Madness Pinball. While the original game utilized relatively dim incandescent bulbs, MMR utilizes three bright LEDs under each insert. After much experimentation, we have designed a styrene diffuser that does an amazing job distributing the light evenly - entirely removing the hot spots created by the LED lamps. The diffuser considerably increases the legibility of the inserts. We will soon be making this available to all concerned. Additionally, a software update will allow owners to adjust the brightness of these controlled lamps.
Soon we will be receiving a small quantity of these styrene diffusers and we will install them on already manufactured machines so to assure ease of installation and proper fittings. After we are satisfied with the process, we will then order a quantity of them and make them available through our dealers.
I am confident that you I have been doing my best to communicate directly with those who have expressed concern and have really appreciated the positive feedback on this approach. I also appreciate your patience as we finalize this solution. We ask that you continue enjoying your games.
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Let's see how these diffusers work ... it does appear that the LEDS put out a 'sharp' focused light as opposed to original bulbs. Let's see if this addresses some (but perhaps not all) of those who feel that they have the issue.
rick
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I agree with Rick, we need to give this a chance. On a positive note, CG is responding to the issue.
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Quick update, I received a call from Doug yesterday and it was a pleasure to talk with him. He came across as most sincere and very proud of MMR in general but was really keen to both explain and ultimately put right my concerns regarding the insert text readability.
Upshot is a diffuser is to be mailed direct to myself. Upon installation if I still have any concerns his door will remain firmly open.
Seems fair enough to me although don't relish un-clipping that big board under the playfield. Anyway in the meantime going to continue enjoying my pin
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Did he mention changes to their printing process going forward?
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Doug called me from Chicago Gaming and explained at length what they are pursuing as a fix. He is an extremely friendly and professional guy. I appreciate the time he dedicated to walking me through the process. I am convinced after speaking with Doug that not only are they committed to quality but they truly care about their customers and the gaming experience they are providing. When they become available, I plan to install one of the diffuser kits on my MMR. In a nutshell, CG kept the playfield to be 100% accurate and true to the original including the insets (as you know, they were not originally designed for LED bulbs). The LED's are too bright and the diffuser will adjust them accordingly. Any changes to the inserts or playfield would have compromised the original intent of keeping the game authentic.
I still prefer my MMR over the original collector quality MM that I sold last year. The MMR plays better (in my opinion) and looks great.
I do not know if they are changing the printing process, this is a question that should be directed to Doug.
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Doug called me from Chicago Gaming and explained at length what they are pursuing as a fix. He is an extremely friendly and professional guy. I appreciate the time he dedicated to walking me through the process. I am convinced after speaking with Doug that not only are they committed to quality but they truly care about their customers and the gaming experience they are providing. When they become available, I plan to install one of the diffuser kits on my MMR. In a nutshell, CG kept the playfield to be 100% accurate and true to the original including the insets (as you know, they were not originally designed for LED bulbs). The LED's are too bright and the diffuser will adjust them accordingly. Any changes to the inserts or playfield would have compromised the original intent of keeping the game authentic.
I still prefer my MMR over the original collector quality MM that I sold last year. The MMR plays better (in my opinion) and looks great.
I do not know if they are changing the printing process, this is a question that should be directed to Doug.
yes i think doug phoned around most of us with the problem which was a nice touch, i am very happy with my machine apart from these darn inserts,mainly the bottom ones. quote me if im wrong keith but the bottom white inserts on the original were nothing like the mmr inserts with the horrible little squares in them, as for my opinion the light from my room shining down makes them worse it seems to reflect all angles which makes the text look worse so im hoping these diffusers will do the trick but doubt they will do anything about the light shining down,then the answer may be play in the dark ;)
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Yes, agree with your comments. I have had to make room lighting adjustments that were not required with my original. For example, any overhead lighting makes matters worse so I rely on background lighting and will probably switch all the ceiling lights to dimmable LED's. I'm hopeful that the diffusers will address the majority of issues. We appear to be on the same page, the game plays great and I'm happy to have had the opportunity to add it back to my collection. In fact, in some ways it plays better; the Merlin kick out works flawlessly on my MMR and it was constantly bouncing out in the original. It makes game play much more rewarding. The only challenge now is that I would like to install several original MM modes and there's no easy power tap other than installing an independent 8v source.
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In my game room the can lighting above the pinball machines were changed to colored LED bulbs each colored to the machine below the light. My Monopoly has a green light above it, LOTR red, RFM green, GB LE will have green, and MMR will have a blue light above it. It adds a little lighting, but it is mostly for accenting the game. I like the room fairly dark with the LED accents above. I also run LED accents under the cabinet from Cointaker. Looks pretty good in my opinion.
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How does one get these diffusers? I'm 99% certain I need them for my MMR #701.
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I believe you can submit a ticket although the parts are supposed to be available through dealerships moving forward.
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We have the diffusers on order ... waiting.
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We have the diffusers on order ... waiting.
Looking for clarification, is there a specific run that is eligible for this part or is it available by request regardless of build sequence or trim option?
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Diffusers installed and the game inserts are perfect. In my opinion, the inserts are now clearer than on my original MM.
Thank you to PPS for your commitment to resolving this issue.
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I am on the edge of purchasing a MMR-LE from someone who wants out (that hasn't gotten their machine yet). Does anyone know if the thin black ink is still present on the machines currently in production, and if so, are the diffusers being installed in the factory?
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Just got some MMR diffusers in and are now on the store ...
http://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PPS-MMR-DIFFUSER&Store_Code=PP
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So....CGC sends out who knows how many playfields with bad ink, comes up with a half-assed fix....then expects people to pay for it!?!?!?!?! WTF.
Setting a bad precedence for service. I'm probably out of future games from them.
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Well, that's not exactly what is happening.
a) if you feel that your game has an issue then you work with CGC (submit a ticket, call them, email them) and if they agree then they will work something out with you under warranty.
b) PPS has put diffusers for sale for anyone that wants them - some do, many do not, independent of a) above.
So we are just making an MMR part available which is what we do as the master parts distributor.
rick
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I can see the benefit of installing the diffuser regardless of the ink issue. It disperses light better in the inserts and has a more "original" look in comparison to the led hotspot that occurs without one. It doesn't necessarily change the tone of the insert or the ink but makes them more legible for sure and has more of a incandescent feel while maintaining enough brightness from the led. If you feel that your machine needs the diffuser as a warranty claim just call your distro. If not but you want one anyway or would like a replacement down the line at least they are being made available through PPS. :)
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I can see the benefit of installing the diffuser regardless of the ink issue. It disperses light better in the inserts and has a more "original" look in comparison to the led hotspot that occurs without one. It doesn't necessarily change the tone of the insert or the ink but makes them more legible for sure and has more of a incandescent feel while maintaining enough brightness from the led. :)
Isn't there supposed to be a setting in the software to change the insert lights to be dimmer and simulate the appearance of incandescent bulbs? And wasn't it hyped that there are 3 individual LED per insert, and if one goes out the other 2 will brighten and compensate? With all of that hardware and apparent control over things why is this thing needed at all, why not just give folks a brightness control in software? They are providing infinite variability on each individual coil power in the game, this would seem to be easy to do.
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I can see the benefit of installing the diffuser regardless of the ink issue. It disperses light better in the inserts and has a more "original" look in comparison to the led hotspot that occurs without one. It doesn't necessarily change the tone of the insert or the ink but makes them more legible for sure and has more of a incandescent feel while maintaining enough brightness from the led. If you feel that your machine needs the diffuser as a warranty claim just call your distro. If not but you want one anyway or would like a replacement down the line at least they are being made available through PPS. :)
Maybe they need to rethink this new LED system then? I put LED's in my other games from the '90's and have no readability issues at all.
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I have no problem paying $30 for a diffuser if necessary. I am more concerned about the lack of production of the machine itself. Little problems like diffusers can be dealt with later since they have no real impact on game play or reliability. Not having the machine is a real bummer.
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There will supposedly be a setting to change the brightness of the LEDS, of course it was also stated that all new games would get the diffusers so....
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Here is what I have from CGC:
- CGC put these on a few games, but after that no longer does - as some people do not want them. Diffusers are not installed on any new games nor will they.
- If you have an issue that you feel is warranty then you go directly to CGC to deal with it, certainly can enlist your reseller for help.
- Otherwise PPS has diffuser kits for sale, or you can try to get your reseller to provide them to you
Rick
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I know what it being said now, it's what was said in the past that is annoying as hell. Fing annoying to be told one thing to turn around and be told another. Look forward to my game but damn CGC is doing a horrible job at managing their customer confidence. Maybe on title #2 they'll figure this ou, butt to constantly punt the ball on one of the most iconic titles ever is just sad.
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tell me about it ...
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.....I just did. ;)
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I wasn't aware of the insert issue when I bought my MMR, and maybe all the negative insert chat would have steered me away from buying MMR, so I'm glad I didn't know about this issue in advance, because I love the snot out of this game, and am glad I bought it. I was pumped about my new pinball machine, and so looked for fellow enthusiasts to share my excitement, and that's when I read the forum posts about insert issues.
Learning about the insert issue did make me look at the playing field and say, "Yeah, why DIDN'T they make those inserts opaque so you can read them when lit." Then, briefly, I weighed the option to follow the herd and make my own stink about the inserts to get my due.
Yes it would have been better if those letters were opaque and thus readable when lit, but lets be honest... not being able to read the name of the castle's baron doesn't affect game play... at all. The castles light up to count how many you've destroyed. Who it belongs to doesn't affect how you play the game. So, at least for me, I looked at the playing field, thought about how weak the insert letters are, and then said to myself, "Oh well. My turn," and then I hit start, and had a ball.
Yeah, some dummy made a bad call on the insert ink issue. No Christmas bonus for that guy. Yet, there are so many things they got right, and I'm grateful they are cranking out a remake of such an awesome classic, because it allows me to not just own an MM, but to own a pristine shiny new modern technology MM at an reasonably affordable price.
There are so many awesome things to say about this game, I feel like exuding negative energy over something so insignificant would just bringing my own happiness quotient down. I decided instead to look at all that positive energy blinking and pulsating on that playing field, and I allowed myself to be amazed.